Thread: A Must Read

Note to moderators: I know this sounds like a political subject, but it is much more than that and needs to be read by all peace-loving people. Please leave it in here unless you are required to by the rules of ROLclub.

Although it is directed mostly to Americans, it is for all freedom-loving peoples everywhere regardless of your race or religion. Please, please heed it! Also, please pass it on to everyone you know. It's the midnight hour.

Subject: An absolute must read!!!!!!!

Read all of it, and then ask yourself; can this really happen? You better
believe that it is well on it's way to being fulfilled.

France is burning, Denmark holds 4 terrorists, Australia arrested 16 -
including radical Muslim cleric, Belgium cars burning, Germany cars
burning!!!! When is it our turn? NOW YOU BETTER read the following!!!!


------------------------------------------------------------------
This is for everyone to read regardless of your political affiliation.

I had no idea who General Chong is or the source of these thoughts... so
when I received them, I almost deleted them - as well-written as they are.
But then I did a "Google search" on the General and found him to be a
retired Air Force Surgeon, of all things, and past Commander of Wilford Hall
Medical Center in San Antonio. So he is real, is connected to Veterans
affairs, and these are his thoughts. They are worth reading and thinking
about! (the same Google search will direct you to some of his other
thought-provoking writings.)

If you would like information on General Chong, go to Google and type in
his name. All of the following is something that everyone should read.


This WAR is for REAL!

To get out of a difficulty, one usually must go through it. Our country
is

now facing the most serious threat to its existence, as we know it, that
we
have faced in your lifetime and mine (which includes WWII).

The deadly seriousness is greatly compounded by the fact that there are
very few of us who think we can possibly lose this war and even fewer who
realize what losing really means.

First, let's examine a few basics:

1. When did the threat to us start?

Many will say September 11, 2001. The answer as far as the United States
is concerned is 1979, 22 years prior to September 2001, with the following
attacks on us:

* Iran Embassy Hostages, 1979;
* Beirut, Lebanon Embassy 1983;
* Beirut, Lebanon Marine Barracks 1983;
* Lockerbie, Scotland Pan-Am flight to New York 1988;
* First New York World Trade Center attack 1993;
* Dhahran, Saudi Arabia Khobar Towers Military complex 1996;
* Nairobi, Kenya US Embassy 1998;
* Dares Salaam, Tanzania US Embassy 1998;
* Aden, Yemen USS Cole 2000;
* New York World Trade Center 2001;
* Pentagon 2001.

(Note that during the period from 1981 to 2001 there were 7,581 terrorist
attacks worldwide).

2. Why were we attacked?

Envy of our position, our success, and our freedoms. The attacks happened
during the administrations of Presidents Carter, Reagan, Bush 1, Clinton
and

Bush 2. We cannot fault either the Republicans or Democrats as there were
no

provocations by any of the presidents or their immediate predecessors,
Presidents Ford or Carter.

3. Who were the attackers?

In each case, the attacks on the US were carried out by Muslims.

4. What is the Muslim population of the World? 25%.

5. Isn't the Muslim Religion peaceful?

Hopefully, but that is really not material. There is no doubt that the
predominately Christian population of Germany was peaceful, but under the
dictatorial leadership of Hitler (who was also Christian), that made no
difference. You either went along with the administration or you were
eliminated. There were 5 to 6 million Christians killed by the Nazis for
political reasons (including 7,000 Polish priests).
(see http://www.nazis.testimony.co.uk/7-a.htm )

Thus, almost the same number of Christians were killed by the Nazis, as
the six million holocaust Jews who were killed by them, and we seldom
heard
of anything other than the Jewish atrocities. Although Hitler kept the
world

focused on the Jews, he had no hesitancy about killing anyone who got in
his

way of exterminating the Jews or of taking over the world - German,
Christian or any others.

Same with the Muslim terrorists. They focus the world on the US, but kill
all in the way -- their own people or the Spanish, French or anyone else.
The point here is that just like the peaceful Germans were of no
protection
to anyone from the Nazis, no matter how many peaceful Muslims there may
be,
they are no protection for us from the terrorist Muslim leaders and what
they are fanatically bent on doing -- by their own pronouncements --
killing

all of us "infidels." I don't blame the peaceful Muslims. What would you
do
if the choice was shut up or die?

6. So who are we at war with?

There is no way we can honestly respond that it is anyone other than the
Muslim terrorists. Trying to be politically correct and avoid verbalizing
this conclusion can well be fatal. There is no way to win if you don't
clearly recognize and articulate who you are fighting.

So with that background, now to the two major questions:

1. Can we lose this war?

2. What does losing really mean?

If we are to win, we must clearly answer these two pivotal questions.

We can definitely lose this war, and as anomalous as it may sound, the
major reason we can lose is that so many of us simply do not fathom the
answer to the second question - What does losing mean?

It would appear that a great many of us think that losing the war means
hanging our heads, bringing the troops home and going on about our
business,

like post Vietnam. This is as far from the truth as one can get. What
losing

really means is:

We would no longer be the premier country in the world. The attacks will
not subside, but rather will steadily increase. Remember, they want us
dead,

not just quiet. If they had just wanted us quiet, they would not have
produced an increasing series of attacks against us, over the past 18
years.

The plan was clearly, for terrorist to attack us, until we were neutered
and

submissive to them.

We would of course have no future support from other nations, for fear of
reprisals and for the reason that they would see, we are impotent and
cannot

help them.

They will pick off the other non-Muslim nations, one at a time. It will
be

increasingly easier for them. They already hold Spain hostage. It doesn't
matter whether it was right or wrong for Spain to withdraw its troops from
Iraq.Spain did it because the Muslim terrorists bombed their train and
told
them to withdraw the troops. Anything else they want Spain to do will be
done.Spain is finished.

The next will probably be France. Our one hope on France is that they
might see the light and realize that if we don't win, they are finished
too,

in that they can't resist the Muslim terrorists without us. However, it
may
already be too late for France.France is already 20% Muslim and fading
fast!

If we lose the war, our production, income, exports and way of life will
all vanish as we know it. After losing, who would trade or deal with us,
if
they were threatened by the Muslims.

If we can't stop the Muslims, how could anyone else?

The Muslims fully know what is riding on this war, and therefore are
completely committed to winning, at any cost. We better know it too and be
likewise committed to winning at any cost.

Why do I go on at such lengths about the results of losing? Simple. Until
we recognize the costs of losing, we cannot unite and really put 100% of
our

thoughts and efforts into winning. And it is going to take that 100%
effort
to win.

So, how can we lose the war?

Again, the answer is simple. We can lose the war by "imploding." That is,
defeating ourselves by refusing to recognize the enemy and their purpose,
and really digging in and lending full support to the war effort. If we
are
united, there is no way that we can lose. If we continue to be divided,
there is no way that we can win!

Let me give you a few examples of how we simply don't comprehend the life
and death seriousness of this situation.

President Bush selects Norman Mineta as Secretary of Transportation.
Although all of the terrorist attacks were committed by Muslim men between
17 and 40 years of age, Secretary Mineta refuses to allow profiling. Does
that sound like we are taking this thing seriously? This is war! For the
duration, we are going to have to give up some of the civil rights we have
become accustomed to. We had better be prepared to lose some of our civil
rights temporarily or we will most certainly lose all of them permanently.

And don't worry that it is a slippery slope. We gave up plenty of civil
rights during WWII, and immediately restored them after the victory and in
fact added many more since then.

Do I blame President Bush or President Clinton before him?

No, I blame us for blithely assuming we can maintain all of our Political
Correctness, and all of our civil rights during this conflict and have a
clean, lawful, honorable war. None of those words apply to war. Get them
out

of your head.

Some have gone so far in their criticism of the war and/or the
Administration that it almost seems they would literally like to see us
lose. I hasten to add that this isn't because they are disloyal. It is
because they just don't recognize what losing means. Nevertheless, that
conduct gives the impression to the enemy that we are divided and
weakening.

It concerns our friends, and it does great damage to our cause.

Of more recent vintage, the uproar fueled by the politicians and media
regarding the treatment of some prisoners of war, perhaps exemplifies best
what I am saying. We have recently had an issue, involving the treatment
of
a few Muslim prisoners of war, by a small group of our military police.
These are the type prisoners who just a few months ago were throwing their
own people off buildings, cutting off their hands, cutting out their
tongues

and otherwise murdering their own people just for disagreeing with Saddam
Hussein.

And just a few years ago these same type prisoners chemically killed
400,000 of their own people for the same reason. They are also the same
type

enemy fighters, who recently were burning Americans, and dragging their
charred corpses through the streets of Iraq.

And still more recently, the same type enemy that was and is providing
videos to all news sources internationally, of the beheading of American
prisoners they held.

Compare this with some of our press and politicians, who for several days
have thought and talked about nothing else but the "humiliating" of some
Muslim prisoners -- not burning them, not dragging their charred corpses
through the streets, not beheading them, but "humiliating" them.

Can this be for real?

The politicians and pundits have even talked of impeachment of the
Secretary of Defense. If this doesn't show the complete lack of
comprehension and understanding of the seriousness of the enemy we are
fighting, the life and death struggle we are in and the disastrous results
of losing this war, nothing can.

To bring our country to a virtual political standstill over this prisoner
issue makes us look like Nero playing his fiddle as Rome burned -- totally
oblivious to what is going on in the real world. Neither we, nor any other
country, can survive this internal strife. Again I say, this does not mean
that some of our politicians or media people are disloyal. It simply means
that they are absolutely oblivious to the magnitude, of the situation we
are

in and into which the Muslim terrorists have been pushing us, for many
years.

Remember, the Muslim terrorists stated goal is to kill all infidels! That
translates into ALL non-Muslims -- not just in the United States, but
throughout the world.

We are the last bastion of defense.

We have been criticized for many years as being 'arrogant.' That charge
is

valid in at least one respect. We are arrogant in that we believe that we
are so good, powerful and smart, that we can win the hearts and minds of
all

those who attack us, and that with both hands tied behind our back, we can
defeat anything bad in the world!

We can't!

If we don't recognize this, our nation as we know it will not survive,
and

no other free country in the world will survive if we are defeated.

And finally, name any Muslim countries throughout the world that allow
freedom of speech, freedom of thought, freedom of religion, freedom of the
press, equal rights for anyone -- let alone everyone, equal status or any
status for women, or that have been productive in one single way that
contributes to the good of the world.

This has been a long way of saying that we must be united on this war or
we will be equated in the history books to the self-inflicted fall of the
Roman Empire. If, that is, the Muslim leaders will allow history books to
be

written or read.

If we don't win this war right now, keep a close eye on how the Muslims
take over France in the next 5 years or less. They will continue to
increase

the Muslim population of France and continue to encroach little by little,
on the established French traditions. The French will be fighting among
themselves, over what should or should not be done, which will continue to
weaken them and keep them from any united resolve. Doesn't that sound
eerily

familiar?

Democracies don't have their freedoms taken away from them by some
external military force. Instead, they give their freedoms away,
politically

correct piece by politically correct piece.

And they are giving those freedoms away to those who have shown,
worldwide, that they abhor freedom and will not apply it to you or even to
themselves, once they are in power.

They have universally shown that when they have taken over, they then
start brutally killing each other over who will be the few who control the
masses. Will we ever stop hearing from the politically correct, about the
"peaceful Muslims"?

I close on a hopeful note, by repeating what I said above. If we are
united, there is no way that we can lose. I hope now after the election,
the

factions in our country will begin to focus on the critical situation we
are

in, and will unite to save our country. It is your future we are talking
about! Do whatever you can to preserve it.

After reading the above, we all must do this not only for ourselves, but
our children, our grandchildren, our country and the world.

Whether Democrat or Republican, conservative or liberal and that includes
the Politicians and media of our country and the free world!

Please forward this to any you feel may want, or NEED to read it. Our
"leaders" in Congress ought to read it, too.

There are those that find fault with our country, but it is obvious to
anyone who truly thinks through this, that we must UNITE!


Submitted by hzchoice

a must listen:

how preachers and priests are entering islam:

http://www.islamtomorrow.com/audio/preacher2islam1.mp3
http://www.islamtomorrow.com/audio/preacher2islam2.mp3

islam is spreading in teh west and out of every 5 peope reverting to islam, 4 of them are women.

why are educated, women from "civilised" countries interested in this oppressive religion? a religion that promotes violence, hate, as pat robertson and his cronies propogate? why are preachers close to the likes of pat robertson, jimmy swaggart, etc from texas reverted to islam WIThOUT supernatural phenomenon?

your answer to this and more harsh questions can be found here:

http://www.islamtomorrow.com
http://www.drzakirnaik.com/pages/qanda/index.php

what does the bible say about muhammad (please have your bible readyfor reference check)?

http://www.muhammad.net/biblelp/

Replies to the most common questions asked by non-muslims about Islam
http://www.drzakirnaik.com/files/rep..._questions.zip

hzchoice, please do all you can to spread propaganda against islam. the fact is, people don't just beleive in the church and the words of the extermist priests anymore.

they research and are interested in the truth. people like yourself -who spread negative images and twisted information make it easier for islam to spread in the western world.

if you go shopping for a tv and the salesperson spends time on why you shoudl NOT purchase a certain product instead of focusing and promoting the "right" product, what opinion will you have of the salesperson?

there is a saying "any publicity is good publicity". you can twist and turn the islamic faith to express your point of view but people still have the ability to use their own brain.

im not entering into a debate here. we muslims are not allowed to insult teh prophet jesus pbuh and the bible -even though the bible is not in it's original form and therefore is the word of man.

islam is a way of life based on faith AND reason. dont' need to see angel gabriel/holy spirit to accept god.

peace be upon you.

NOTEWORTHY QUOTATIONS ABOUT
ISLAM
& THE PROPHET
OF ISLAM
BY THE NON-MUSLIMS



ISLAM

"Moslems are the world's fastest-growing group..."
USA TODAY, The population referance bureau, Feb. 17, 1989, p.4A

"Already more than a billion-people strong, Islam is the world’s fastest-growing religion." ABCNEWS, Abcnews.com

"The religion of Islam is growing faster than any other religion in the world." Mike Wallace, 60 MINUTES

"Islam is the fastest-growing religion in the United States..."
NEW YORK TIMES, Feb 21, 1989, p.1

"Islam is the fastest-growing religion in the country."
NEWSDAY, March 7, 1989, p.4

"There are more Muslims in North America then Jews Now."
Dan Rathers, ABCNEWS

"Islam is the fastest growing religion in North America."
TIMES MAGAZINE

"Islam is the fastest-growing religion in America, a guide and pillar of stability for many of our people..."
Hillary Rodman Clinton, LOS ANGELES TIMES, May 31, 1996, p.3

"Islam continues to grow in America, and no one can doubt that!" CNN, December 15, 1995

"Five to six million strong, Muslims in America already outnumber Presbyterians, Episcopalians, and Mormons, and they are more numerous than Quakers, Unitarians, Seventh-day Adventists, Mennonites, Jehovah's Witnesses, and Christian Scientists, combined. Many demographers say Islam has overtaken Judaism as the
country's second-most commonly practiced religion; others say it is in the passing lane." Johan Blank, USNEWS (7/20/98)

"In fact, religion experts say Islam is the second-largest religion in the United States... Islam has 5 million to 6 million members, followed by
Judaism, with approximately 4.5 million..... And Islam is believed to be fastest-growing religion in the country, with half its expansion coming from new immigrants and the other half from conversions."
Elsa C. Arnett, KNIGHT-RIDDER News Service

"But Islam has a still further service to render to the cause of humanity. It stands after all nearer to the real East than Europe does, and it possesses a magnificent tradition of inter-racial understanding
and cooperation. No other society has such a record of success uniting in an equality of status, of opportunity, and of endeavours so many and so various races of mankind . . . Islam has still the power to reconcile apparently irreconcilable elements of race and tradition. If ever the opposition of the great societies of East and West is to be replaced by
cooperation, the mediation of Islam is an indispensable condition. In its hands lies very largely the solution of the problem with which Europe
is faced in its relation with East. If they unite, the hope of a peaceful issue is immeasurably enhanced. But if Europe, by rejecting the cooperation of Islam, throws it into the arms of its rivals, the issue can only be disastrous for both."
H. A. R. Gibb, WHITHER ISLAM, London, 1932, p. 379.

"It (Islam) replaced monkishness by manliness. It gives hope to the slave, brotherhood to mankind, and recognition of the fundamental facts of human nature."
Canon Taylor, Paper read before the Church Congress at Walverhamton, Oct. 7, 1887; Quoted by Arnoud in THE PREACHING OF ISLAM, pp. 71-72.

"How, for instance, can any other appeal stand against that of the Moslem who, in approaching the pagan, says to him, however obscure or degraded he may be 'Embrace the faith, and you are at once equal and a brother.' Islam knows no color line."
S. S. Leeder, VEILED MYSTERIES OF EGYPT

"Sense of justice is one of the most wonderful ideals of Islam, because as I read in the Qur'an I find those dynamic principles of life, not mystic but practical ethics for the daily conduct of life suited to the whole world." Lectures on "The Ideals of Islam;" SPEECHES AND WRITINGS OF SAROJINI NAIDU, Madras, 1918, p. 167.

"History makes it clear however, that the legend of fanatical Muslims sweeping through the world and forcing Islam at the point of the sword upon conquered races is one of the most fantastically absurd myths
that historians have ever repeated." De Lacy O'Leary, ISLAM AT THE CROSSROADS, London, 1923, p. 8.

"The extinction of race consciousness as between Muslims is one of the outstanding achievements of Islam, and in the contemporary world there is, as it happens, a crying need for the propagation of this Islamic virtue." A. J. Toynbee, CIVILIZATION ON TRIAL, New York,
1948, p. 205.

"I am not a Muslim in the usual sense, though I hope I am a "Muslim" as "one surrendered to God," but I believe that embedded in the Quran and other expressions of the Islamic vision are vast stores of divine truth from which I and other occidentals have still much to learn, and 'Islam is certainly a strong contender for the supplying of the basic framework of the one religion of the future.'"
W. Montgomery Watt, ISLAM AND CHRISTIANITY TODAY, London, 1983, p.ix.

'I believe in One God and Mohammed the Apostle of God,' is the simple and invariable profession of Islam. The intellectual image of the Deity has never been degraded by any visible idol; the honours of the
prophet have never transgressed the measure of human virtue, and his living precepts have restrained the gratitude of his disciples within the bounds of reason and religion." Edward Gibbon and Simon Ocklay,
HISTORY OF THE SARACEN EMPIRE, London, 1870, p. 54.

"The doctrine of brotherhood of Islam extends to all human beings, no matter what color, race or creed. Islam is the only religion which has been able to realize this doctrine in practice. Muslims wherever on
the world they are will recognize each other as brothers."
R. L. Mellema, Holland, Anthropologist, Writer and Scholar.

"Medieval Islam was technologically advanced and open to innovation. It achieved far higher literacy rates than in contemporary Europe;it assimilated the legacy of classical Greek civilization to such a degree that many classical books are now known to us only through Arabic copies. It invented windmills ,trigonometry, lateen sails and made major advances in metallurgy, mechanical and chemical engineering and irrigation methods. In the middle-ages the flow of technology was
overwhelmingly from Islam to Europe rather from Europe to Islam. Only after the 1500's did the net direction of flow begin to reverse." Jared Diamond, UCLA sociologist, and physiologist who won the Pulitzer Prize for his book: "Guns, Germs, and Steel."

THE PROPHET OF ISLAM

"Muhammed is the most successful of all Prophets and religious personalities." Encyclopedia Britannica

"The founder of twenty terrestrial empires and of one spiritual empire, that is Muhammed. As regards all standards by which human greatness may be measured, we may well ask, is there any man greater than
he?"Lamartine, Historie de la Turquie, Paris 1854, Vol. 11 pp. 276-277

"I have always held the religion of Muhammad in high estimation because of its wonderful vitality. It is the only religion which appears to me to possess that assimilating capacity to the changing phase of
existence which can make itself appeal to every age. I have studied him - the wonderful man and in my opinion for from being an anti-Christ, he must be called the Saviour of Humanity. I believe that if a man like him were to assume the dictatorship of the modern world, he would succeed in solving its problems in a way that would bring it the much needed peace and happiness: I have prophesied about the faith of Muhammad that it would be acceptable to the Europe of tomorrow as it is beginning to be acceptable to the Europe of today."
George Bernard Shaw, THE GENUINE ISLAM.

"My choice of Muhammad to lead the list of the world's most influential persons may surprise some readers and may be questioned by others, but he was the only man in history who was supremely successful on both the religious and secular level."
Michael H. Hart, THE 100: A RANKING OF THE MOST INFLUENTIAL PERSONS IN HISTORY, New York: Hart Publishing Company, Inc., 1978, p. 33.

"In little more than a year he was actually the spiritual, nominal and temporal rule of Medina, with his hands on the lever that was to shake the world." John Austin, MUHAMMAD THE PROPHET OF
ALLAH in T.P.'s and Cassel's Weekly for 24th September 1927.

"Four years after the death of Justinian, A.D. 569, was born at Mecca, in Arabia the man who, of all men exercised the greatest influence upon the human race... Mohammed"
John William Draper, M.D., L.L.D., A History of the Intellectual Development of Europe, London 1875, Vol.1, pp.329-330

"Muhammad was the soul of kindness, and his influence was felt and never forgotten by those around him." Diwan Chand Sharma, The Prophets of the East, Calcutta 1935, p. l 22.

"People like Pasteur and Salk are leaders in the first sense. People like Gandhi and Confucius, on one hand, and Alexander, Caesar and Hitler on the other, are leaders in the second and perhaps the third sense.
Jesus and Buddha belong in the third category alone. Perhaps the greatest leader of all times was Mohammed, who combined all three functions. To a lesser degree, Moses did the same."
Professor Jules Masserman

"He was Caesar and Pope in one; but he was Pope without Pope's pretensions, Caesar without the legions of Caesar: without a standing army, without a bodyguard, without a palace, without a fixed revenue;
if ever any man had the right to say that he ruled by the right divine, it was Mohammed, for he had all the power without its instruments and without its supports." Bosworth Smith, MOHAMMAD AND
MOHAMMADANISM, London, 1874, p. 92.

"It is impossible for anyone who studies the life and character of the great Prophet of Arabia, who knows how he taught and how he lived, to feel anything but reverence for that mighty Prophet, one of the great
messengers of the Supreme. And although in what I put to you I shall say many things which may be familiar to many, yet I myself feel whenever I re-read them, a new way of admiration, a new sense of reverence for that mighty Arabian teacher." Annie Besant, THE
LIFE AND TEACHINGS OF MUHAMMAD, Madras, 1932, p. 4.

SOME MORE QUOTATIONS:

I wanted to know the best of the life of one who holds today an undisputed sway over the hearts of millions of mankind.... I became more than ever convinced that it was not the sword that won a place for Islam in those days in the scheme of life. It was the rigid simplicity, the utter self-effacement of the Prophet the scrupulous regard for pledges, his intense devotion to his friends and followers, his intrepidity, his
fearlessness, his absolute trust in God and in his own mission. These and not the sword carried everything before them and surmounted
every obstacle. When I closed the second volume (of the Prophet's biography), I was sorry there was not more for me to read of that great life.
Mahatma Gandhi, statement published in 'Young India,'1924:

He was the most faithful protector of those he protected, the sweetest and most agreeable in conversation. Those who saw him were suddenly filled with reverence; those who came near him loved him; they who described him would say, "I have never seen his like either before or after." He was of great taciturnity, but when he spoke it was with emphasis and deliberation, and no one could forget what he said...
Lane-Poole in 'Speeches and Table Talk of the Prophet Muhammad':

His military triumphs awakened no pride nor vain glory as they would have done had they been effected by selfish purposes. In the time of his greatest power he maintained the same simplicity of manner and appearance as in the days of his adversity. So far from affecting regal state, he was displeased if, on entering a room, any unusual testimonial of respect was shown to him.
Washington Irving in 'Life of Muhammad,' New York, 1920:

“Like almost every major prophet before him, Muhammad fought shy of serving as the transmitter of God’s word sensing his own inadequacy. But the Angel commanded ‘Read’. So far as we know, Muhammad was unable to read or write, but he began to dictate those inspired words which would soon revolutionize a large segment of the earth: "There is one God"."
“In all things Muhammad was profoundly practical. When his beloved son Ibrahim died, an eclipse occurred and rumors of God 's personal condolence quickly arose. Whereupon Muhammad is said to have announced, ‘An eclipse is a phenomenon of nature. It is foolish to attribute such things to the death or birth of a human being'."
“At Muhammad's own death an attempt was made to deify him, but the man who was to become his administrative successor killed the hysteria with one of the noblest speeches in religious history: ‘If there are any among you who worshiped Muhammad, he is dead. But if it is God you Worshiped, He lives for ever'.”
James Michener in ‘Islam: The Misunderstood Religion,’ Reader’s Digest, May 1955, pp. 68-70:

Incidentally these well-established facts dispose of the idea so widely
fostered in Christian writings that the Muslims, wherever they went, forced people to accept Islam at the point of the sword.
Lawrence E. Browne in ‘The Prospects of Islam,’ 1944:

"During all the first part of the Middle Ages, no other people made as
important a contribution to human progress as did the Arabs, if we take this term to mean all those whose mother-tongue was Arabic, and not merely those living in the Arabian peninsula. For centuries, Arabic was the language of learning, culture and intellectual progress for the whole of the civilized world with the exception of the Far East. From the IXth to the XIIth century there were more philosophical, medical, historical, religiuos, astronomical and geographical works written in Arabic than in any other human tongue."
Phillip Hitti in 'Short History of the Arabs:

"Despite the growth of antagonism, Moslem (Muslim) rulers seldom made their Christian subjects suffer for the Crusades. When the Saracens finally resumed the full control of Palestine the Christians were given their former status as dhimmis. The Coptic Church, too had little cause for complaint under Saladin's (Salahuddin) strong government, and during the time of the earlier Mameluke sultans who succeeded him the Copts experienced more enlightened justice than they had hitherto known. The only effect of the Crusaders upon Egyptian Christians was to keep them for a while from
pilgrimage to Jerusalem, for as long as the Frank were in charge heretics were forbidden access to the shrines. Not until the Moslem victories could they enjoy their rights as Christians."
James Addison in 'The Christian Approach to the Moslem,' p. 35:

Originally Posted by yhlc

a must listen:

how preachers and priests are entering islam:

http://www.islamtomorrow.com/audio/preacher2islam1.mp3
http://www.islamtomorrow.com/audio/preacher2islam2.mp3

islam is spreading in teh west and out of every 5 peope reverting to islam, 4 of them are women.

why are educated, women from "civilised" countries interested in this oppressive religion? a religion that promotes violence, hate, as pat robertson and his cronies propogate? why are preachers close to the likes of pat robertson, jimmy swaggart, etc from texas reverted to islam WIThOUT supernatural phenomenon?

your answer to this and more harsh questions can be found here:

http://www.islamtomorrow.com
http://www.drzakirnaik.com/pages/qanda/index.php

what does the bible say about muhammad (please have your bible readyfor reference check)?

http://www.muhammad.net/biblelp/

Replies to the most common questions asked by non-muslims about Islam
http://www.drzakirnaik.com/files/rep..._questions.zip

hzchoice, please do all you can to spread propaganda against islam. the fact is, people don't just beleive in the church and the words of the extermist priests anymore.

they research and are interested in the truth. people like yourself -who spread negative images and twisted information make it easier for islam to spread in the western world.

if you go shopping for a tv and the salesperson spends time on why you shoudl NOT purchase a certain product instead of focusing and promoting the "right" product, what opinion will you have of the salesperson?

there is a saying "any publicity is good publicity". you can twist and turn the islamic faith to express your point of view but people still have the ability to use their own brain.

im not entering into a debate here. we muslims are not allowed to insult teh prophet jesus pbuh and the bible -even though the bible is not in it's original form and therefore is the word of man.

islam is a way of life based on faith AND reason. dont' need to see angel gabriel/holy spirit to accept god.

peace be upon you.

So you promote terorisam? Why you support killings of inocent people all over the world?

Are you human?

why dont' u read teh links and THEN decide if i promote terrorism.

all i am saying is that anything can be twisted to represent one's opinion. ask any lawyer.

if u want to find out if islam is religion of terrorism, please go and check with an imam (muslim priest/preacher).

confornt them with your concern and ask them to attend to these false allegations.

if islam supported terrorism, it would not be growing by in the western world.

it's the terrorists who are accuisng islam of terrorism by fabricating and spreading lies. again, check with teh experts of the religion, ie imams.

would you seek legal advice from a mechanic? these lies are perpetrated by deceitful people. nuff said.

also, read what non-muslims say about islam and the prophet pbuh as posted above. i know it's along read. there are many non-muslims who stand up for the truth and protect muslims. gotta ask yourself why.

READ and REASON before jumping to conclusions.

thanks

better yet,

order ur free cd about islam from:

http://journeytoislam.com/index.htm

it has been created with teh assistance of former preach from texas who is now a muslim. he knows the bible and quran backwards.

i suggest you get teh freed cd, read, listed, etc and then contact the nearest mosque regarding terrorism, etc.

you can also watch the video "does islam = terrorism" by teh former preacher mentioned above:

http://islamyesterday.com/videos/

right click on the lick below and choose "save as" for the video (14mb)
http://www.nooralanoor.com/video/sou...20%5B56k%5D.rm

former preacher tells all (richt click, "save as"):

http://www.islamyesterday.com/islamt...L_Sept_(1).mpg
http://www.islamyesterday.com/islamt...L_Sept_(2).mpg

Good piece hzchoice,
totally agree, political correctness ONLY works in favour of the infiltrator. The very same crap is happening every day over here in Australia, it makes me sick. You in the USA and we in OZ live in countries based upon CHRISTIAN principles and values, our peoples have spilt their blood defending our nations against those who would invade or subvert. Now we have the subversion from within.

There is something terribly wrong when a Mosque can be built even after legal community protests halted the proceedings, to have the decision overturned by a local council of muslims and the politically correct and yet my children aren't allowed to sing Christmas carols at school or mention the name of Jesus in public for fear it may offend somebody. HELLO....WAKE UP AUSTRALIA!

I can't imagine the Pope or Dr. Stanley telling all the Catholics and Protestants to kill everyone who wasn't of the Catholic or Protestant faith in order to get to heaven...and the muslim is told to kill the 'infidel'....ie everyone who is not of their faith. This message is being preached in Australia (and no doubt USA) in Arabic. (der...like nobody can translate).

Quite frankly yhlc, I don't give a rats about your faith if it means I gotta conform to it to appease those who would murder me and my family.

I don't care about the crusades, the 10th, 12th or 15th centuries....this is 2005, the western world is being attacked now by murderous fanaticals and it just so happens they are muslims. That's not religious descrimination, that's a cold hard fact. Take a look around, what demographic group is strapping tnt to themselves, what group is blowing up busses, what group is flying planes into buildings, what group is blowing up Australians in Bali, do I need to paint a picture.

Muslims say they worship the same God as Christians and yet their God tells them to kill me in order to get to heaven and my Jesus tells me to love them because He wants them in heaven with me. I don't think God is a schizophrenic.

settle down tony,

what u say is partially ture. just like the crusades, i blame the followers not the religion. please don't mix it up.

secondly, do your indpendent research. the links i provided prove that islam does not preach hatred. it's the people who preach against islam who incite hatred. in the old days, it was the christians, today the spotlight is on the muslims.

think about it. there are over a 1 billion muslims. how many are terrorists? every heard of generalising?

besides, i did suggest that one who beilieves that islam incites hatred and division should take their material to teh local imam of the mosque and ask him or his wife to prove that allegations are false.

it's ridiculois that muslims are offended by christmas and the other stuff you've mentioned. the council is even more stupid to entertain this absurdity.

islam clearly states that a muslim should follow the laws of the country they live in. check it up and look around. more than 99% of the muslim world respect other relgions and culutres.

i am talking about 2005. did ever occur to you that during any suicide bombings or attacks, muslims ALSO get killed or hurt? think about it.

any idea how many muslims worked at the world trade centre, live in england or even currently in iraq where bombs are going off?

the quran quite clearly states the punishment for one who kills another human being. very clear.

again, set your prejudice aside and go visit a local mosque for more info.

if you truly are a christian, and beleive in god, then give a benefit of doubt to his christian. reach out and integrate.

if you want to discuss anything, give me acall on 0405 830 636. im based on the gold coast.

at our local mosque, we have visitors from all faiths. im sorry u feel the way you do about muslims but beilieve it or not, we're pretty pissed off with muslims who say they believe in god and yet spend their time killing when they could use their time lobbying for peace.

tony, if you have read this far, the i'd like you to just click this link that demonstrates how the media and other organsiations can twist verses and statements to achieve their aim. it's from media watch exposing channel 7's today tonight interview of 2 muslim boys from sydney in mid august - 2005:

Mediawatch: Unkind cuts (22/08/2005)

http://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/tra...s/s1442946.htm

just watch it and u'll see why i storngly encourage non-muslims who have concerns such as yours to go direct to the source and find out the facts.

if you hang aroudn ur circle, it will just spread fear and hatred for no reason.

while i encourage immigrants to integrate, i also ask the aussies who are generalyl fair dinkum to welcome their guests and exchange dialogue so we can learn from one another.

ignorance leads to wars which only profits the corporations.

regards

Hi
Totally disagree with "Why we were attacked "in the first piece
because the are jealous ,envious etc etc
Thats really to simplistic
How about manupulation of governments,other countries economies,initiating wars to suit there own agenda
I could go on and on
Do you really think they are jealous.I dont
I think its called cause and effect

Greg

finally, someone who is rational.

gjr, reality is that freedom has nothing to do with it. every living being will die for their liberty. no religion can take away freedom without it's own destruction.

this "why we were attacked" spin was used to generate approval for attack in iraq and afghanistan. there was not other way to get public favour.

there will aways be psychos justifying their acts against humanity. these people justified their acts against innocent people in US, bali, israel, UK, etc in teh same way the US, UK and israel justify their state sponsored terrorism in the name of freedom.

two wrongs don't make a right - unless u bribe/ looby governments and the court of law. even then, from a moral point of view, it is wrong.

don't need religion to determine wether it is wrong to attack innocent people. just need common sense.

when i was taking a subject in law back in high school, i was taught that it would be better to let go 100 criminals than to attack an innocent. today, the actions of my country is the anti-thesis of what i was taught in this subject at high school.