Thread: A Humble Request (Merged)

ArcturusI, thank you for your wisdom and the calm way you set it forth.

We need to stay the course, even if it means as you put it, with a little detour.

We wait until you post again.

Kozmar

Does anyone besides me think this thread has derailed long ago? Seems to me to be about 5% information and 95% coffee house chatter with the periodic promise of "revelation" to come.

I've been following from the beginning hoping for some meaningful "revelations" and "facts". While there are a few, in general the quality and quantity of "revelation" has been lacking to say the least.

Have you ever been to a movie and watched it bored to death for an hour all the while hoping the good part was just ahead finally just wanting it to end so you could go home?

Originally Posted by kozmar

ArcturusI, thank you for your wisdom and the calm way you set it forth.

We need to stay the course, even if it means as you put it, with a little detour.

We wait until you post again.

Kozmar

I second that Thanks ArcturusI

Originally Posted by kevo

Does anyone besides me think this thread has derailed long ago? Seems to me to be about 5% information and 95% coffee house chatter with the periodic promise of "revelation" to come.

I've been following from the beginning hoping for some meaningful "revelations" and "facts". While there are a few, in general the quality and quantity of "revelation" has been lacking to say the least.

Have you ever been to a movie and watched it bored to death for an hour all the while hoping the good part was just ahead finally just wanting it to end so you could go home?

I am sure that some of the Pioneers who have some pieces of the jigsaw are keeping things to themselves.

There are probably several reasons for this.

Initially the thread was useful for providing background information for "newbie" members who never saw the original forum and who joined up based on reports of others success but for whom the W/D problems prevented them from receiving any returns in hand.

Now that it has moved on into a more investigative phase many Pioneers are probably worried about several issues.

Apart from satisfying the curiosity of those who don't know many of the things that were going on with and without the knowledge of the CEO (probably not as much as many assume) does this washing of dirty linen in public actually serve our best long term interests?

Or could it actually be counterproductive? We have all seen how taking a sentence out of context or omitting even one word can change the meaning of a post to suit the purposes of the social misfits who feed like blowflies on the sewage in the other forums.

The fact that Bryan has made no response to any of the speculative threads rather indicates that he believes that silence is the safest option even if he were not under a legal injunction. If the restructured programme were to be Private that would leave the enemies howling at the door but unable to do much harm. Nor would the so-called guardians of the public interest or our self serving political ******* have much ammunition.

Betraying confidences is another issue. Although members are not under any Non-Disclosure Agreements the passing of time blurs the memory as to what information was given in the forum or in Convention speeches and what was given in private conversation where confidentiality might have been assumed.

Another potential source of information (the UK consultants who were advising on the re-structure) one of whom was actually present in the last few days at Nilai, is ruled out because of an NDA.

Another issue is that Bryan is on record as saying that he was not interested in apportioning blame or making accusations or excuses, saying merely that a full disclosure would be made at the appropriate time and place.

At no point has this thread had any sort of sanction or authority or contribution from Bryan although we can surely asume that he is aware of it. This leads me to suspect that he regards it at best as being trivial and irrelevant and at worst as potentially harmful but hoping that those in the know will have the sense to keep quiet.

So following my gut instinct and having some sympathy with Kevo I feel that I am personally unlikely to contribute further.

I am an admirer of the way that Arc has kept his focus while all around have been losing theirs and I hope some good may come of it.

It will certainly do no harm to the success of Rolclub to have a thread running along like the Mousetrap!

Just another couple of Bobs worth:)

Michael

Originally Posted by spiderman

as far as yogi , how does one know that his name was not hijacked to make it look like his post??just a thought.

It wasn't...

Well I for one really don't care if it goes on or Not ... and if it does ..it has to be with the right info ... info that can not damage Bryan's work so far.

The newbies now know .. or at least I hope they know .. What Pips was about .. and is about and some idea , why we are where we are ,here and now ...

Bryan is still here ... No one want's to be in his shoes even though they may say .." IF" it was my company this would of not happened .. .. OH Yah .. Right.

Cleaning up the mess is no quick fix if it is to run smoothly in the future.

I can only admire a man who stands his ground and works had to get this Baby back on the road....

Originally Posted by bultn

Bryan has not been reading anything here since Apr-27 which was the last time he was logged in. This thread was only 64 pages at that time.

In the case of "michaelr's" quote to which your answer was directed, we shouldn't put words into anyone's mouth or draw conclusions about what anyone thinks.

As far as his last login date, it may or may not be accurate. People who choose to can "appear" offline while looking everything over, not to mention I'd bet that BM has some close friends that could be keeping him up-to-date with "what" is being said "where".

EW

Originally Posted by everwiser

It wasn't...

Thats very true...IT WAS NOT hijacked... can't allow that, thanks EW for re-assuring others but on to a simple stance I take...

I, like ANY of you, or most of you in fact, DO NOT criticise nor insinuate just where your thoughts or concerns ly from here to PIPS or to any pitfalls you felt you are led into...it's your choice as well as mine on how we read or digest facts as they come...

We keep it civilise here with hard talk & exchange and when one starts trying to stamp out another with one's own brand or core statement based on how you feel.... hell, we may not regard you as a troll, but you sure sound like one accusing ME of my stance based on my opinion so far.

So, keep it civilise and continue...no one is stopping you (to those few concerned)either, just remember that!

Talk to ya soon EW...thanks for the PM...great to see ya managing well with Raditz too.

YB.

Kevo: Michaelr is correct, my original intent was to inform, stimulate and offer a point of view. Certainly, other sites have offered points of view, but this thread, IMHO, was valuable for what it gave, not what it took. I have learned a few things here, as have many others. If it goes no further, at least you know what got us to this point.

As to your other point........revelations are simply that - revelations. We have had a few minor ones here, and for some, larger ones, but as I said the other day, what we have been doing here has been twisted, corrupted by those who don't give a damn about anything but the money. They will do ANYTHING to get at it, and believe me, they are. For myself, I absolutely refuse to lead them toward any more watering holes.......unless, of course, they are all neatly corralled. Unless or until that happens, we leave the members to puzzle out what they would have done, how the current situation applies to what we have learned, and, most importantly, what can be done. From most keyboards, not much. From others, a great deal.

Michaelr your post is full of sound reasoning.....thank you. We have gotten off topic from time to time, but the overriding purpose has always remained - we are here to inform and answer questions. Just because you don't like the format, or there are questions we cannot answer doesn't make this banal. {I should clarify....I used "you" generically, not aimed at Michaelr directly....(bowing low) many, many apologies Michaelr}

Question everything, accept only that which is good (St. Paul). Ask your questions and be patient; there is no where to go but up.

Arcturus

Arcturus my friend, we set out to distance a marathon. Not for the glory of winning but to overcome all the elements that prevent a finish.
Disregard yogi,s exercise in plain english, it does not alter the status quo of what was and is. We are not altering history, encumbered as it is with different viewpoints, but rather standing on the touchline from every conceivable angle. We should not let our gaze wander, our ears listen, our senses reel, nor should we drown when opposing forces would argue the oposite, would twist those rare elements of truth against us, would block the path to the finish line.
Fragmentation ruled the day before you started this thread. Scattered to the wind so that not one person held all the pieces. What say you how I use, misuse or sell what I know? Harm is harm done and can do no more.
Let us continue.
Regards
paddy