Thread: A Humble Request (Merged)

Azmia wrote:-"I have heard time and time again about the 'worthless' pieces of real estate that PIPS had in Malaysia, where the Bistro ect where put up...Land speculators when developing under valued property will go into these kinds of neighborhoods and begin revitalization projects. It doesn’t happen over night, but these key properties will end up being keystones in that community. They make money in the long run, not short term investing. So certainly right now, if you were to make a trip to there, and take a look at the real estate since there is nothing going it it would appear to look worthless and run down. Especially if you don’t know anything about land promotion and real estate."

Yes Azmia, much has been said about why BM should not have been buying this real estate in Malaysia. No-one has ever paid any attention to anyone who explained why he did and (should have) and I don't suppose they will this time but here goes anyway.

Anyone objecting to these purchases on the grounds of the cost and the "burden" on the company must be right out of touch with reality. The cost of these properties would have been negligible. The area was (and still is) run down but there are local plans and support to rejuvenate the area and Bryans involvement as a foreign businessman would have been welcomed.

Taking the properties one by one PIs office and the original Newmark Business Centre were bought before Pips became a multi million dollar business and would have been a clever purchase on Bryans part on several grounds. Low overheads, room for expansion (surrounded by empty commercial units) meeting approval of local political figures who wanted them occupied, good access to main roads and KL International Airport a few minutes away, IT University Campus in Nilai, source of trained techies, Hotel to accomodate visitors just across the road, need I go on?

All of this was proved to be the correct decision when space was needed for Picpay and Picrealty and the DataCentre. One more empty unit at a cost of a few thousand USD. Justified surely to house over $1.5 million in computers and servers and another 50 plus staff members?

Bistro and Coffee House premises. Primary objective, to show would-be franchisees what the proposition was. If it would function after a fashion even in Nilai what would it be like in a Class A location in New York or London? Cost of local labour to mount up the units was again not likely to have been a great deal as labour is so cheap in Malaysia.

Pips Fashion. One of Bryans objectives was always to identify and help local talent with PI functioning as a business angel. Again it was a good idea surely to do a dry run in Nilai before opening the unit in Lot 10 (which last time I was there was still open and presumably standing on its own two feet?

The next unit (Tandoori) was just opposite Pips Fashion and nearly ready when the closure took place.

I have seen first hand how this kind of urban renewal can work. Once a few units are working and busy others want to move in as well and within a short time the whole area is rejuvenated and values can rise rapidly.

The naysayers attacks on the "unwarranted expenditure" never did wash but curiously and paradoxically they might have had a point if the whole enterprise had been located in prestigious offices in the Petronas Twin Towers for example!

Why anyone would expect to take anyone with any business experience in with these spurious arguments was always beyond me but they stuck to the theme like glue.

Could it be that if you don't have a case at all then you repeat a weak argument often enough and it becomes stronger?

Azmia:- "Just some points of interest about information which they keep pointing to. Which I do not make sense of."

I don't either except that they must think that as smoke and mirror tactics it deflects us from seeing the real guilty parties?

Just another couple of bobs worth:)

Michael

Originally Posted by ArcturusI

I'm hurt, Mike (lol)......It wasn't BM who told us of the name originally, and he didn't hand over a bag of money. As I recall, funds were transferred and the "deal" was being handled by MM. It was another "good friend" inside the company that told us the name of the individual through weekly "calls". That money was later told to be missing.

To be fair, I did not see that actual wire transfer, but then, I never saw all the CC transactions either. Maybe they don't exist???? Maybe no one really loaned any money at all? After all, I didn't see your proof of a spend in the program. Hmmmmmmm.

Pippyman, I refuse to play this inane game with you. YOU have made my point. "The sky is blue. Prove it. Look up. I have a white ceiling. Go outside. Prove there is an outside." See how it goes? I ask a relevant question, and the answer is an attack on BM, and demand for proof? That is not how one finds truth.

MEMBERS: Doesn't it bother you that it's "OK" to attack BM and any support for the "innocent until proven guilty" argument, but that ANYTHING that is said in support or against those who "abandoned" the membership is instantly attacked and shut out as "no proof?"

And what about the actions of those since? The bank thing was done and over LONG before August 2005. We never got an explanation for why, did we? When pressed, we then found out the "deal" never happened, never had a chance.

What about GIG? What about VicTrading? What about the other programs (CU's, etc.)? Can't focus on the facts there, because that is not allowed.

PROVE me wrong. I DARE YOU! Maybe that will get your attention (but probably not......) You want my proof? YOU won't go away......THEY won't go away........BM is still working in the shop as best he can.

".....I got 'yer proof right here....." (for all you Soprano's fans...)

Arcturus

Good points, Arcturus, just makes ya' go "hmmm...," doesn't it?!

Originally Posted by choochie

Mike,
This is the thread that he was referring to
http://rolclub.com/showthread.php?t=4482&page=1

Thanks, I did read that, just never heard Bryan say who representative was, or how much money was involved, or if it was missing. He only referenced the person was MIA, so when I heard money was gone, and who took it, I didn't recall any of that, so thanks, now it is clear, we still don't know anything. (g)

Good luck to all, Mike

Good points MichaelR,

No doubt, real estate can make you or break you, just ask Donald Trump. LOL The point was, non performing real estate is extremely risky, wouldn't you agree? Yes, if you want to forcast out 10 to 20 years you will be in profit, but the overall performance of real estate, as in, covering expenses and maintenance is not always going to pan out. I could illustrate tons of examples, as I am sure we all could, but real estate in distressed areas, if not slums, is always risky, no matter how convenient the location may be to airports or colleges, as example.

All one has to do is look at Harlem in NYC. The worst slums in the world for 30 years, and now look at it, finally it is booming ever since Clinton opened office. LOL The same thing was true in Atlantic City, another run down slums for years. Then casinos came to town, so there will always be two sides to this issue, but rarely will real estate in slums bounce back quickly, if ever. There are just too many factors that go into real estate investing. I've made millions and lost millions in real estate, as have thousands of others, so it will be interesting to see how this all shakes out in the end. Bottom line, it doesn't make much difference now as taxes are are surely in default, rents, mortgages, utilities, so I wonder how many of our assets will still be there by the time this is all resolved? That is the question I would like to know.

Good luck to all, Mike

Originally Posted by Offshore-Wealth.com

Good points MichaelR,

No doubt, real estate can make you or break you, just ask Donald Trump. LOL The point was, non performing real estate is extremely risky, wouldn't you agree? Yes, if you want to forcast out 10 to 20 years you will be in profit, but the overall performance of real estate, as in, covering expenses and maintenance is not always going to pan out. I could illustrate tons of examples, as I am sure we all could, but real estate in distressed areas, if not slums, is always risky, no matter how convenient the location may be to airports or colleges, as example.

All one has to do is look at Harlem in NYC. The worst slums in the world for 30 years, and now look at it, finally it is booming ever since Clinton opened office. LOL The same thing was true in Atlantic City, another run down slums for years. Then casinos came to town, so there will always be two sides to this issue, but rarely will real estate in slums bounce back quickly, if ever. There are just too many factors that go into real estate investing. I've made millions and lost millions in real estate, as have thousands of others, so it will be interesting to see how this all shakes out in the end. Bottom line, it doesn't make much difference now as taxes are are surely in default, rents, mortgages, utilities, so I wonder how many of our assets will still be there by the time this is all resolved? That is the question I would like to know.

Good luck to all, Mike

The point I was making is that a business has to be located somewhere and the cost of those locales to purchase was no more IMHO than six months rent in the Twin Towers would have been, so which would you do if you were the CEO at the time?

To a business the size that Pips was before it got screwed the cost was peanuts and I doubt if the question of making a profit from the properties came into the decision. You call it non-performing but actually it was performing very well as a place to do business at very low cost.

Same question as this. Do you buy your home and decide where it should be as a way to give you what you want in life in terms of proximity to schools and other amenities that you need or as a way of making money?

BTW having now spent several months in Malaysia it occurs to me that people in the UK, Europe or the USA may not realise that most secondary business locations in Malaysia do have that rather run down and delapidated appearance not helped by abandoned vehicles and broken paving, its just the way it is over there.

I I reckon we should not be so worried about how little the real estate is still worth as whether the missing millions can be located and the business allowed to get back to earning returns for us.

Originally Posted by michaelr

The point I was making is that a business has to be located somewhere and the cost of those locales to purchase was no more IMHO than six months rent in the Twin Towers would have been, so which would you do if you were the CEO at the time?

To a business the size that Pips was before it got screwed the cost was peanuts and I doubt if the question of making a profit from the properties came into the decision. You call it non-performing but actually it was performing very well as a place to do business at very low cost.

Same question as this. Do you buy your home and decide where it should be as a way to give you what you want in life in terms of proximity to schools and other amenities that you need or as a way of making money?

BTW having now spent several months in Malaysia it occurs to me that people in the UK, Europe or the USA may not realise that most secondary business locations in Malaysia do have that rather run down and delapidated appearance not helped by abandoned vehicles and broken paving, its just the way it is over there.

I I reckon we should not be so worried about how little the real estate is still worth as whether the missing millions can be located and the business allowed to get back to earning returns for us.

Agreed,

Having a low cost office is one thing, that was not the issue, it was all the other holdings which are vacant I was referring to. You are or were in Malaysia, so I am sure you know what I am referring to, and you are right, third world slums are worse than ours, no doubt about that.

As to your question on where I would build and what is most important, simple, both, but I would not live anywhere unless it was in the best area for maximum appreciating real estate values, regardless of conveniences. I guess this is simply a matter of choice, but I would never purchase a home in an area where it would not appreciate in value, but that's just me. (g)

Just my two dinars worth, Mike

Well at times this thread has been interesting and to a piont enlighting, we seem to have reached once again, the enevitable prove this or that,he said, she said, BM is good Bm is evil etc etc. This was an excellent exersize in trying to develope a thoughtful and rational approach as to what perhaps happened.Credit must be given for the initiation of this process.However we once again come to a point where a wall is hit. No matter how many ways you come at it, one will only get so far, and although good for moral and something to pass the time, we are where we are. I don't want to bash one person for this and another for that , we all have our opinions and that is freedom. I would however like to say that this was a business and I have always came from this point of view, probably because for me it simplifies it to take the emotion out of it( at least as much as you can when money is involved) and look at it objectively.
Yes mistakes were made, by a company growing to fast, the ceo was over extented and did not use good business decisions in delegation matters.Spreading the company way to thin with diversification way beyond what could be controlled by a long standing co, let alone pips.Perhaps even a man who could not let go of his baby and holding to tight, not realizing the harder he held it close the more it was dieing. All our scenarios and what ifs are interesting, but people, we are still owed a report on the status of this company by BN or a legal representative of pips etc.There is no valid reason even with all the speculation in the world of what ifs , that this cannot be done by someone. Just my 2 cents.

Originally Posted by deandg

Well at times this thread has been interesting and to a piont enlighting, we seem to have reached once again, the enevitable prove this or that,he said, she said, BM is good Bm is evil etc etc. This was an excellent exersize in trying to develope a thoughtful and rational approach as to what perhaps happened.Credit must be given for the initiation of this process.However we once again come to a point where a wall is hit. No matter how many ways you come at it, one will only get so far, and although good for moral and something to pass the time, we are where we are. I don't want to bash one person for this and another for that , we all have our opinions and that is freedom. I would however like to say that this was a business and I have always came from this point of view, probably because for me it simplifies it to take the emotion out of it( at least as much as you can when money is involved) and look at it objectively.
Yes mistakes were made, by a company growing to fast, the ceo was over extented and did not use good business decisions in delegation matters.Spreading the company way to thin with diversification way beyond what could be controlled by a long standing co, let alone pips.Perhaps even a man who could not let go of his baby and holding to tight, not realizing the harder he held it close the more it was dieing. All our scenarios and what ifs are interesting, but people, we are still owed a report on the status of this company by BN or a legal representative of pips etc.There is no valid reason even with all the speculation in the world of what ifs , that this cannot be done by someone. Just my 2 cents.

Well deandg...
IF the FACTUAL Events were like you have described them above...
THEN...FOR SURE...we would have gotten this report from BN...

SO...OTHER FACTORS must have been discovered during the Investigation...making BN most interested to INVESTIGATE MORE...
and notice this...NOT involving the police or put BM behind bars as a suspect...MAYBE they are most interested in SOME OTHER "Objects"...
Like RATS ...to give an examlple....and it's quite amazing to now notice almost a combined Rat appereance in this thread...claiming this or that ...
patting eachother on the back....using generalites such as :

"As I know MOST of the Members think like this..."
or...
"Many of the Members have done the same as I..."

I say...BULL****....

Just keep on Beating the Bush fellow Pipsters...
This Thread is becoming MORE and MORE Interesting....contrary to your opinion deandg...

More and More small rats is showing up...
SO...when will we see the BIG FAT RAT...?

Just curious...

Largo

Mike wrote;

"I know for a fact that BM is only telling us the half-truth. There is way more than what he has told us, and I also believe there are many problems that he is hiding".

Mike where are the "FACTS" you say you know for a Fact. Please tell us what the Realistic FACT you have. If you don't not have "THE FACT' as YOU put it then we can only assume it is a Fantasy of your mind... hmm maybe even trying hard to appear as an interlectual.... maybe again as Largo put it; trying to initiate nonsensical lead on arguments that take away from the reality of factual events we are trying to establish here in this thread

Come on Mike present the "FACT'' as YOU claim either that or apologise for your, it seems mischiveous comment.

Boots.

In a side topic, but yet related...

What does ROL Club, BTI, and Talk Gold all have in common?

4D