Thread: A Humble Request (Merged)

Originally Posted by ArcturusI

I cannot say more on this topic, or some others, as I am bound by honor ( for those of you who can’t understand how that works, that’s where I give my word, my pledge not to reveal or speak of certain topics or events ) not to reveal certain things at this time. Neither I, nor certain Pioneers, can speak about some things, but we, collectively, have enough pieces to provide you with a fairly complete picture.

This is not meant to sound arrogant.

Does this mean that you and to those to whom you have given your word, are in possession of certain unequivocal facts pertinent to the legitimacy or illegitimacy of PIPS?

Does the code of honour also mean that you have a duty to speak up at the appropriate time by statutory declaration (or oath) to the relevant authorities investigating PIPS?

I applaud your ethics, and totally understand the reason for not presenting all that you know publicly. (Of course we WANT to know everything, as most of us by nature are inquisitive, but we DON'T NEED to know.)

If you and your associates DO have fact's that are pertinent to the outcome of PIPS will you and/or your associates be presenting it and the evidence to the relevant authorities at the appropriate time?

Hmmmm.............. Not offended. Your question is valid, as is your observation.

I would not be one that they would call. If they did, they would be disappointed. Procedure would demand absolute proof, and considering I was not in the offices, it would serve no one to ask me to defend operations. (I cannot, nor will not, speak for any I 'associate' with.) Any lawyer will tell you that one who has not witnessed personally is only speaking heresy, and it is not admissable under normal circumstances. But this isn't about what I know or do not know.........

I have been told certain things, I have discovered certain things, but most of all, I have listened and paid attention. I ask questions and pay particular attention to what is NOT being said. As I stated earlier, if I had all the answers, if I was satisfied with "what I know", I would not be here. I'd be doing what I could in silence, as it is most effective. But there is a reason for this, and I will say what I can, when I can, depending on the question or circumstance. I DO NOT KNOW IT ALL. Never said I did. But put several of us together with what we know individually, and a picture emerges. I have learned a thing or two here myself. This is designed to present as many facts and details as possible, for the benefit of many. THEY would have you act blindly, in darkness. We only want to shine a light or two. This isn't about me, it's about Pips as a group of programs and members. They would have rounded us up long ago if they wanted to talk to us. That, in itself, should tell you something, and it isn't what you think........

Arcturus

Thank you Arcturus,
I, for one, am not looking for BM's head on a stick.
I was just abit unraveled by the matter of fact presentation below.

Originally Posted by ArcturusI

Many of you will not be pleased with what will be revealed or spoken of in the coming days. The truth is always welcome; it is not always pleasant. However, in order that you may understand, we will do our best, and when it can be revealed, it will be. But that is not for me, for us, to say.

We have given you clues, we have provided you with most everything that you need. Go over your notes, examine the evidence already provided. It is all there for the taking. Merely attend to that which is being avoided or delayed by those who would tell you “the truth”.

A final clue to this portion of our discussion. Pay particular attention to the communications that we received through IB from GN, and that which were “official” announcements from BM, and look to what is NOT being said, what is NOT being answered. That is the biggest, the best clue I can give you right now. As we move on, other things will become apparent, and we will no longer need to “blame” or point fingers, it will be quite clear (if you are paying attention).


Arcturus

Based upon this, conclusions have been reached already.
I, as well as others, appreciate the facts as drawn, but please do not
invoke such conclusions based upon what "is not being said, what is not being answered".
Too many have read between the lines already.

Forget the clues...If you have something worthwhile, state it. If it can be
proven otherwise, it will!
Quite simply put "the proof is in the pudding"!

Fair....I would be lying if I said I didn't have an ending in mind, but, unlike a certain book, I am still open to suggestion. However, my point about what is not being said or answered IS valid, and cuts both ways. Worthwhile? Not for you or I to determine. If you want me to stop, say so.

I stand by what I wrote. You cannot state "The Butler did it!" without explaning why, when, how. It won't make sense, and most wouldn't believe it. Why should you believe them or me? You shouldn't. Merely examine all that is here, determine what is missing, and conclude for yourself. I won't be telling anyone what to think. Only where to look.

Thanks Hesitate. Good to keep me on my toes. I get complacent otherwise.

Arcturus

Hi ArcturusI,

You sound just like some lawyers that I know. Saying alot but not really
saying anything of value.

Just my view!!!!

Thank you for your reply - I understand and take your point.

It would be nice to think that the BNM investigation was not biased or selective. But I fear it will be neither.
__________________________________________

Originally Posted by srair71

Hi ArcturusI,

You sound just like some lawyers that I know. Saying allot but not really
saying anything of value.

Just my view!!!!

srair, I don't think that is at all fair. I believe ArcturusI has managed this thread with skill, and kept it on track, and not many could do that with all its intricacies. There are so many tangents that can fly off from it, yet it has remarkably stayed on course.

Personally I would like to see a diary of events or a flowchart of events would really be an achievement. I would do the latter myself but I don't have sufficient grasp of the events to do it accurately - a flowchart would tell allot as it can have many threads. As for the former, we have events and not necessarily accurate dates for SOME events.

Would it be correct to say that "in that part of the world", you have to pay to play? My meaning is that in order to get things done you have to "pay off" certain people/authorities in certain positions to get the necessary "paperwork", legalities, and such in order. Bascially you have to deal with devils in order to become a saint...In this case those that had been paid for their services got greedy and set about trying to get to more of "The Money". If I read this wrong, please correct me. This would explain the "short term" consultants. They knew or claimed to know the specific people to "grease" and then kept the "grease" for themselves?

Thanks for your time.

EW

Originally Posted by everwiser

Would it be correct to say that "in that part of the world", you have to pay to play? My meaning is that in order to get things done you have to "pay off" certain people/authorities in certain positions to get the necessary "paperwork", legalities, and such in order. Bascially you have to deal with devils in order to become a saint...In this case those that had been paid for their services got greedy and set about trying to get to more of "The Money". If I read this wrong, please correct me. This would explain the "short term" consultants. They knew or claimed to know the specific people to "grease" and then kept the "grease" for themselves?

Thanks for your time.

EW

Bryan had several well connected "local" directors inside the organisation who would have understood all about that subject. He would not have been green to it himself after all the projects he had dealt with through facilities management projects in the Far East in the palm oil industry, KL Airport etc.,

The UK firm of Management Consultants were not likely to have specific knowledge of which palms to grease in that part of the world and were there as I recall it to offer a restructure plan. In the end I believe I am right in saying that nothing came of that and the consultant returned to base after just a few weeks in Nilai and a few days before the BN began the investigation.

Originally Posted by denim

Personally I would like to see a diary of events or a flowchart of events would really be an achievement. I would do the latter myself but I don't have sufficient grasp of the events to do it accurately - a flowchart would tell allot as it can have many threads. As for the former, we have events and not necessarily accurate dates for SOME events.

a flowchart would be very helpful for us 'newbies'.

Does anyone recall "why exactly" the consultants were brought in?